See what GMRS Web readers have had to say about this radio: http://www.dougweb.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000328.html

I purchased one of these radios at Fry's in Milpitas, CA. The Fry's ad actually claimed this radio was 2 watts on GMRS and .5 watts on the first seven FRS channels - which are the same as the GMRS interstitial channels. Fry's even had this radio plugged in so that you could try-before-you-buy! I have not opened the bubble pack yet for the real specs since I want to get some good photos of the bubble-pack packaging. (More information on this product to come!)

The antenna is non-removable and they CLAIM that the radio is an FRS radio when on the GMRS Interstitials and a GMRS radio when on the 8 GMRS channels. Why? This is just dumb, very dumb. A REAL GMRS radio would offer a solid two watts on ALL GMRS channels and have the capability for an EXTERNAL antenna. The VOXBOX CANNOT be an FRS radio with GMRS channels included. Legally, hybrids cannot exist. You either are a GMRS or an FRS radio, not both.

While at Frys, I was able to hold a VOXBOX in my hand. It has the look and feel of a cheap and poorly constructed toy. It would probably disintegrate if dropped. It's power source is a AAA size NIMH battery which is included. AudioVox claims a 5 mile range and they call it the "5-Mile radio" on the bubble-pack. That message feels good, doesn't it.

Every marketing message for this device panders to the public's imagination, feelings, and misconceptions about two-way radio. The message has very little if anything to do with the realities of the various services, the physics of radio, or FCC rules and licensing.

Imagine the confusion. A consumer buys a VOXBOX thinking it is an FRS radio. It says so rather slyly on the bubble-pack. This consumer is found using the product without a license. What then?

The clerk at Frys never advised me that I needed a license when I bought the radio. There is NO clear message on any FRYs display that tells consumers licenses are required for some radios and not required for others. (And remember it was plugged in for anyone to try.)

Clearly, stores are going to sell these radios to a million kids for Christmas, rake in the money, and destroy GMRS as we know it in the process. I don't know about you, but I have a SIGNIFICANT investment in my commercial quality UHF radio system that I have no desire to lose.

AudioVox markets this $99 ($89 on sale) cheap plastic VOXBOX hand held as:

• Ideal for Construction/Factory Sites
  
• Ideal for Municipal Facilities
  

These two marketing points on this bubble-pack are in BLATANT violation and in complete DISREGARD of the FCC rules.

According to the FCC, the GMRS is a land mobile radio service available only to individuals and their immediate families for short distance two-way communications. GMRS exists solely to facilitate the activities of the licensees and their immediate family members. Further, an individual is eligible to hold a GMRS license only if that person is 18 years of age or older and is not a member of a foreign government. Companies and municipalities have not been eligible to use GMRS since 1987!

The GMRS community needs to respond to AudioVox about their VOXBOX radio in a big way. The marketing message around this device is going to confuse the general public and could have serious negative effects on the service. Bubble-pack piracy is already epidemic. Irresponsible marketing like this will make it worse beyond our wildest imagination. We are going to be hearing hundreds of these radios on GMRS channels very soon. In my view, there is clear intent in the marketing of this product to obfuscate and deceive the consumer.

Watch for the GMRS Web Editorial on this new product. Write letters to AudioVox expressing your displeasure with their new bubble-pack pirate radio, the GMRS-1525 VOXBOX.

GMRS Web Magazine is going to forward its comments directly to the Federal Communications Commission.

The bubble pack does say, "FCC Self License" required, whatever that is. There is no such thing as an FCC Self License. This only has meaning to Audiovox. Consumers must complete FCC forms, pay a fee, and then the FCC issues a license for a five year time period. Why obfuscate the issue by making it FEEL so simple?

You can write AudioVox at:

AudioVox
150 Marcus Blvd
Hauppage, NY 11788

In their Frequently Asked Questions they indicate that a "one-time licensing fee" is required for a GMRS license - WRONG!
Hyperlink
to AudioVox GMRS1525 FAQ

Let's all express our displeasure in their misleading and inaccurate package and web site information on what is clearly a GMRS radio and not a license-free FRS unit.
Hyperlink
to AudioVox GMRS1525 User Feedback

or Mailto:ae_customerservice@audiovox.com

My e-mail is on its way right now.
------------------
Bill Easterday, KB8FU, ex-KAD7920 GMRS,
FCC General Radiotelephone Operator Licensee
DougWeb Hi-Tech Radio Forum Moderator

The past few years I have thought that GMRS would go license by rule because of lack of use (in many parts of the country). It would seem that this valuable resource would be better utilized for personal communications as intended. I guess the general population has gotten a bit lazy and has trouble applying for licenses and obtaining proper equipment.

quote:

---

Originally posted by G. M. Alf:
Cobra is entering the race with the PR2000WX. There is not much information on it yet but you'll start to hear about it soon.

---

Here is the information I have on the pr2000wx. http://www.darkdata.org/blackstock/images/pr2000.jpg

Also, a question. Did the FCC drop the requirment to have a copy of the license application sold with the GMRS radio? If not, the audiovox does not have one.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Corwin Moore:
Has anyone researched the FCC certification of this radio? Is it certified as an FRS radio?

- Corwin Moore (PRSG)

---

http://gullfoss.fcc.gov:8080/cgi-bin/ws.exe/p rod/oet/forms/misc/Grant_Form.hts?application_id=97422&mode=COPY&fcc_id=OAJGMRS-1525

It is for Part 95(A). GMRS station license required is stated in the grant.

Thinking of businesses ... Today, I ran into a retired Motorola dealer that I hadn't seen in probably 15 years. I asked him if he ran any GMRS repeater systems when he was in the two-way radio business. He seemed to feel that since the FCC doesn't care about enforcement and doesn't have much of an enforcement budget that maybe I needn't bother getting a license if I want to again operate a GMRS system. This is not the concensus of opinion among the regular visitors to DougWeb's GMRS forums. (I should risk my GROL, VE credentials and ham license and take a chance at possible fines to save $85. No way!)

------------------
Bill Easterday, KB8FU, ex-KAD7920 GMRS,
FCC General Radiotelephone Operator Licensee
DougWeb Hi-Tech Radio Forum Moderator

I just took the time to send a short message
to Audiovox at the above link, indicating my
feelings concerning the GMRS-1525. I hope
all of the rest of the users here on the
board will do the same!! Let's let them
know how we feel about the deceptive
marketing tatics.

Now, back to the beautiful fall foliage!!

They pretty much did everything as required in the small owner's manual and quoted license eligibility from the rules. Odd, because they missed this on the packaging. This says to me that they KNEW better than to package this radio in this fashion. Clearly they understand they are selling a GMRS radio.

What is very interesting is that this device is made with 2.5 KHz transmit deviation. The same deviation FRS uses. This means the radio is NOT completely compatible with the legacy GMRS equipment in use today. Users can expect, because of the difference in signal to noise ratio, that the signal from this radio will not be understood as far away as one using 5 KHz.

It certainly looks like the distributors are trying to change the service through market place activism and not through the rule of law.

MURS had to be created because the market place was indifferent to the FCC rules and the FCC wasn't minding the store. If we are not careful we could lose our own GMRS investment.

------------------
Doug Smith
Editor, GMRS Web Magazine
Support our advertisers!
Tell them you found them at GMRS Web!
KAF9830
WA6GON

What is very interesting is that this device is made with 2.5 KHz transmit deviation. The same deviation FRS uses. This means the radio is NOT completely compatible with the legacy GMRS equipment in use today. Users can expect, because of the difference in signal to noise ratio, that the signal from this radio will not be understood as far away as one using 5 KHz.

It certainly looks like the distributors are trying to change the service through market place activism and not through the rule of law.

Are they intending this radio for families that utilize both GMRS and FRS?

MURS had to be created because the market place was indifferent to the FCC rules and the FCC wasn't minding the store. If we are not careful we could lose our own GMRS investment.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug:
What is very interesting is that this device is made with 2.5 KHz transmit deviation. The same deviation FRS uses. This means the radio is NOT completely compatible with the legacy GMRS equipment in use today. Users can expect, because of the difference in signal to noise ratio, that the signal from this radio will not be understood as far away as one using 5 KHz.

---

Not fully grasping all of the implications of deviation in FM just yet, I have to ask if that means a 3dB difference or a 10dB difference in the S/N ratio? Can anyone help me out on that detail?

If it is 3dB, then this is picking nits. If 10, then it's another matter entirely.

It could also have been a design tradeoff, that they decided to go with 2.5kHz deviation because they were not aiming for maximum GMRS compatibility, but rather maximum FRS compatibility, and for a low price all in one shot. Certainly keeping to one deviation level reduces the complexity and cost of the unit.

Changing power levels in newer radios is just a matter of applying one fixed voltage or another to a controlled RF stage. For example, they might apply 4 volts for high power, and 1.5 volts for low power. The cntrolled RF stage feeds the rf PA. So power selection can be a simple line from the microprocessor, switching a voltage in or out.

quote:

---

Originally posted by strburst:
I have two of these radios and have tested there radiated RF output. It shows no change no mater what channel you are on. 2 watts on all channels. The specs on the AudioVox site confirms this. They seem to be a converted FRS radio possibly produce by some over sea's company who markets them in various forms with some simple programing changes. One note, the battery life is outstanding for a 2 watt radio using 4 AAA batteries. The range is also substantialy better the my Cherokee 465 FRS units I have tested them against. And yes, I have the license.

---

I still don't understand why my Motorola 250 FRS's at 1/2 watt out-talk and out-distance the Audiovox GMRS 2-watt radios on a side-by-side comparision test.

I'm definitely disappointed... but definitely proud of the Motorolas.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Scribe:
I still don't understand why my Motorola 250 FRS's at 1/2 watt out-talk and out-distance the Audiovox GMRS 2-watt radios on a side-by-side comparision test.

I'm definitely disappointed... but definitely proud of the Motorolas.

---

Might be something wrong with the Audiovox radios. I've heard different reports concerning range of the 1525 which leads me to believe there may be some QC problems with the radio.

"Dear Audiovox customer,
Your e- mail did not transmit all the way . Please resend.
I would also like to apologize for not responding to your e-mail any sooner
as an overwhelming amount of telephone calls this month prevented us from
responding as promptly as we would have liked. Thank you."

Very interesting. I wonder if they got a lot of action on this. I did resend it

Peter,

Thank you for pointing out our oversight. I will forward your letter
to the FRS engineer to examine the FCC requirement for license renewal and
amend the web site as required. The radio is marketed as an FRS/GMRS
radio, because the first 7 channels are FRS channels, and the final 8
channels are exclusive GMRS channels. Please advise us of any other
inaccuracies you observe.

Corwin, since AudioVox is feigning cluelessness who can the average person write at the FCC?

quote:

---

Originally posted by Peter:
Here's the reply that I got from Audiovox:

Peter,

Thank you for pointing out our oversight. I will forward your letter
to the FRS engineer to examine the FCC requirement for license renewal and
amend the web site as required. The radio is marketed as an FRS/GMRS
radio, because the first 7 channels are FRS channels, and the final 8
channels are exclusive GMRS channels. Please advise us of any other
inaccuracies you observe.

Thank You,
Joseph Garruba

---

------------------
Doug Smith
Editor, GMRS Web Magazine
Support our advertisers!
Tell them you found them at GMRS Web!
KAF9830
WA6GON

quote:

---

Originally posted by Peter:
Here's the reply that I got from Audiovox:
... the first 7 channels are FRS channels

---

The first seven channels are GMRS channels in this particular radio. They require a license regardless of what the power level is if they are in a GMRS radio.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug:
Corwin, since AudioVox is feigning cluelessness who can the average person write at the FCC?

---

I'll check. It involves in part what action we might want the FCC to take.

The most powerful action would be for the FCC to remove or revoke its type-certification unless/until the marketing practice is corrected. That would require that Audiovox immediately pull all of those units off the market (and, potentially, offer refunds to purchasers of the units).

I purchased mine at Frys, and found them hanging right next to the AudioVox FRS. Overall, I don't think this was a calculated marketing campaign by AudioVox or Fry's, probably just a bunch of ignorance on everyones part. And I blame the FCC a bit also.

The FCC MUST mandate that ANY radio being sold which requires a license:

1) Contain a printed license application and,

2) Contain a LARGE Orange sticker on the from indicating that this product REQUIRES an FCC license for operation, the license costs X ammount, and failure to obtain a license before operating this product could result in fines of X.

3) Require users to be 18 to purchase. (The minimum age for a license.)

Having the customer sign something at purchase that he/she acknowledges this wouldn't hurt either.

If these rules were put into effect, you'd have much less abuse of the band, and ignorance. And it would't cost the FCC one cent.

WPQT840

I purchased mine at Frys, and found them hanging right next to the AudioVox FRS. Overall, I don't think this was a calculated marketing campaign by AudioVox or Fry's, probably just a bunch of ignorance on everyones part. And I blame the FCC a bit also.

The FCC MUST mandate that ANY radio being sold which requires a license:

1) Contain a printed license application and,

2) Contain a LARGE Orange sticker on the from indicating that this product REQUIRES an FCC license for operation, the license costs X ammount, and failure to obtain a license before operating this product could result in fines of X.

3) Require users to be 18 to purchase. (The minimum age for a license.)

Having the customer sign something at purchase that he/she acknowledges this wouldn't hurt either.

If these rules were put into effect, you'd have much less abuse of the band, and ignorance. And it would't cost the FCC one cent.

WPQT840

3) Require users to be 18 to purchase. (The minimum age for a license.)

Are you suggesting that the FCC require licenses to buy GMRS radios?

WPQT840

quote:

---

Originally posted by RyanCA:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by anogee:
Are you suggesting that the FCC require licenses to buy GMRS radios?

---

That's not at all how I read it. I read it to be that the FCC require that the customer be aware of a licensure need to buy GMRS radios.

quote:

---

Originally posted by RyanCA:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by anogee:

Are you suggesting that the FCC require licenses to buy GMRS radios?

---

I'm not suggesting that a user have a license before he/she purchases a GMRS radio. Only that the purchaser be the minimum age at which a license can be issued, and the purchaser fully understand the requirement to license.

The initial premise of this thread was that AudioVox was the bad guy because they tried to market their radios to a large audience of FRS users instead to the smaller audience of GMRS users.

Thanks for pointing out these facts for us. We will look into this matter
and correct the problem. Thank You.

RN

This sounds encouraging to me.

quote:

---

Originally posted by anogee:
I just heard back from AudioVox. Their response:

Thanks for pointing out these facts for us. We will look into this matter
and correct the problem. Thank You.

RN

This sounds encouraging to me.

---

No, not in the least. I'm sure they are blowing it off. They have already shipped thousands of these to Fry's, COMP USA, and other mass retailers. Christmas is right around the corner and I suspect you will begin hearing children on your block using GMRS radios they think are FRS radios. The only advantage we have is that the radios are so poorly manufactured they won't last very long.

In spite of the controversy over the good and the bad of the FRS/GMRS Audiovox 1525 radio, which WILL eventually be resolved, Audiovox has jumped way out on the cutting edge of the technology by producing a 2-watt GMRS radio the size AND PRICE of a small FRS radio, which many people on here were declaring to be a technological impossiblility only a few weeks ago.

So it CAN be done. And that's progress, I say.

------------------
Doug Smith
Editor, GMRS Web Magazine
Support our advertisers!
Tell them you found them at GMRS Web!
KAF9830
WA6GON

Actually, there isn't much difference in size between the Audiovox 1525 and the PR-460. My service manager took the following measurements this morning with a pair of calipers. They hadn't been calibrated in a while, so these measurements may be a few hundreths of an inch off either way:

PR-460: 4.415" x 2.150" x 1.440" (HxWxD)
GMRS-1525: 4.215" x 2.170" x 1.195" (HxWxD)

The PR-460 used had the standard 600 mAH NiMH "skinny" pack installed. As you can see, our unit is a few fractions of an inch larger, but it isn't bigger by much. In fact, comparing apples to apples, the Audiovox lacks a battery pack, and without the pack installed the PR-460 is only 0.845 inches in depth.

There is a difference in the weight of the two units, at least with the batteries installed. Without batteries, the Audiovox weighs in at 0.32 lbs. With the batteries installed the weight increases to 0.42 lbs. In comparison, the PR-460 weighs 0.42 lbs without the battery pack and 0.74 lbs with the battery.

It is interesting to note that the GMRS-1525 manual specifies the operating time of the radio at 14 hours using alkaline batteries. They do not specify an operating time for the included 650 mAH NiMH AAA batteries. My service manager and I did a number of current draw tests this morning on the 1525, and we are really perplexed by these numbers. Using the Motorola 90/5/5 duty cycle standard (90% standby, 5% receive, 5% transmit) we estimate the operating time of the radio to be approx 8.4 hours assuming 1500 mAH alkaline batteries. With the included NiMHs we estimate only 3.6 hours operating time. By comparison, the PR-460 is rated for 7.8 hours with the standard 600 mAH pack or 12.9 hours with the optional 1,000 mAH pack. Of course, operating cycles, battery condition, and battery charging habits have a huge antecdotal effect on operating time, so your mileage may vary.

The difference in weight is largely due to the fact that the PR-460 chassis is made out of metal. The Audiovox is all plastic - and paper thin plastic at that. The radiation from the red TX LED is actually visable THROUGH the plastic at the top of the unit.

The unit -is- inexpensive for a GMRS radio, but it certainly isn't much smaller than any existing radios. However, having examined the radio rather thoroughly, I am of the opinion that it is of questionable quality, even for an FRS radio. For that, I can only say "Thank You" to Audiovox. Their introduction of this unit will greatly increase consumer awareness of GMRS, and, when those consumers come looking for a serious GMRS radio, I trust that they will find the PR-460: ClearConnect to be the absolute radio of choice.

------------------

Ken Collier, KO6UX - Marketing Manager
PRYME Radio Products
Web page: http://www.pryme.com

Study for your ham radio license http://www.hamtest.com

------------------

Ken Collier, KO6UX - Marketing Manager
PRYME Radio Products
Web page: http://www.pryme.com

------------------

Ken Collier, KO6UX - Marketing Manager
PRYME Radio Products
Web page: http://www.pryme.com

Study for your ham radio license at http://www.hamtest.com

The Audiovox did exactly what was implied. Got me interested in more range than the FRS stuff could give, but made me look for a real radio

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug:
...and it is NOT a two watt radio as advertised. Look for the review on this radio at GMRS Web this week.

---

I looked at GMRS web and couldn't find any review that you mentioned about the Audiovox 1525 and/or its 2-watt claim.

------------------
Doug Smith
Editor, GMRS Web Magazine
Support our advertisers!
Tell them you found them at GMRS Web!
KAF9830
WA6GON